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By Thomas Brading, Army News ServiceAugust 18, 2020. The Army is the only service which allow non college graduates in being Officers and pilots as we know. However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty. Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. The pilot shortage is not in applicants it is in mid career. I want to do it for as long as I can. Especially if they view retention as a big enough problem to justify an additional 4 year commitment from aviators. It didn't help that the CSA took advantage of his own program by taking private military flight lessons and was awarded his pilots wings while a 4 star. The U.S. Army Aviation Center Survival Escape Resistance and Evasion (SERE-C) course. C-17 formation from the ramp: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop. I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a military pilot. I at least expected a survey or something from the Aviation branch to ask why I was leaving, but again, nothing. The Army lowered the max TIS to 8 years for WOFT applicants a few years ago without a waiver. NG will have 10 years. I was under the impression that the bonus went away when they upped the 10+ year flight pay. Those serving on active duty for less than 10 years shall serve in the Ready Reserve as follows: For active duty service less than 8 years, 6 years in the Ready Reserve. More money for tents and rifles, I suppose. Well also see some advantages of Active Duty and some options for cutting your time there short. Not difficult for the Army in finding 300 additional NCOs for the WOFT program if need be. Commercial airlines offer higher salaries, more career control, and stabilization. Can you imagine thesmile on more than a few faces of the last graduating class in Fy 2020 in September. Its important to note that Stans theoretical plan might have allowed him to obtain the 750 hours needed for an R-ATP about 7 years after graduating from college, but thats not competitive for getting hired at a major airline. I'm roaring and ready to go. If youre worried about frequent moves disrupting your family life, picking a community with few basing locations is a viable option for Active Duty. You don't have to have a college degree to apply or be accepted into it, he said. It wasn't approved. NO WOFT POSTS. In a worst-case scenario, hes looking at: Wow, thats a lot of moving and time away from home! While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. Just so we know I'm not a whiny do nothing: seven deployments, six combat for a total of 70 months and 66 months respectively. Thats at least 2 moves and several TDYs in the space of about 2 years. This of course will do nothing to fix the problem of toxic leaders, poor assignment choices, or any of the other issues. Stan figured that even spending 5 years in a non-flying job, this track would make him a military pilot well below the USAFs current age limit (33 years old), and would actually get him to the airlines sooner than his Active Duty pilot peers. They require more time for people to gain experience. Be older than 18, but not more than 33 years at the time of board selection (Active Component (AC), USAR, and ARNG) . The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. Does anyone know the current selection breakdown of street to seat vs prior service? His answer was, Of course not. The new policy doesnt include Soldiers currently in training, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 William S. Kearns, aviation and officer policy integrator for the Armys G-1 office. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. So the recruitment piece has not historically been our challenge, it has been capacity and production. But what if the new ADSO invalidates this assumption? The US Army is missing the boat by not letting seasoned professionals into flight school. Do most of your fellow aviators love it? I retired in 1998. In the last decade, retention has always been a hot-button issue. Additionally, because of rules that the Federal Aviation Administration has put into place over the last decade that make hiring civilian pilots difficult, many regional airlines have created rotary-wing transition programs that substantially ease the transition for Army helicopter pilots. Ironically, the reason why Congress established a limit on entry into flight training is because the Army in the late 60's and early 70's started to funnel relatively large numbers of maneuver General Officers through flight school. In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and getting kicked to the curb as a furlough. Stan is likely to do plenty of TDYs as an engineer and isnt impervious to the threat of deployment. However, we have to look at more than just the number of years involved. I assume if you're not finished withflight school by 30 Sep 20, your commitment is just as long as the Air Force if not a little bit longer. That's the Army's ace in the hole. I am a former Aviation Officer and when I got out after my ADSO was complete I was surprised that no one questioned why or tried to get me to stay. Look down many of us are after something a little more challenging than the admin tasks of a 1SG or CSM. The policy also applies to Army Reserve and National Guard components, but their obligated service will remain part-time, he said. 10 U.S. Code 2114: Graduates of the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences incur an ADSO of at least 7 years. Deployments are great flying, but terrible on a family. Initial assignments should be in table of organiza-tion and equipment (TOE) rather than table of distribution and allowances (TDA) units. Upload or insert images from URL. Well, the short answer is, we dont know. The Modern War Institute does not screen articles to fit a particular editorial agenda, nor endorse or advocate material that is published. Nope. I feel that part of the problem is that the Army assessed too many senior NCOs into flight school, which helped get them into this box that they are in. Press J to jump to the feed. If hed gone to UPT right after college, its more likely that hed get a lot of his deploying done before his kids were that old, or even before they were all born. That was the last straw for several senior pilots in my battalion and the majority of them retired after/because of that deployment when they had intended to stay in for at least a few more years. You can review the rules in AR 600-3 if memory serves. I ended up discovering that Stan was most worried about frequent moves and long deployments stressing his family during an Active Duty flying career. The Army only draws between 300-400 non prior WOFT applcants yearly. However, we have to look at more than just the number of years involved. Aviation continuation pay 2 . By policy, the Army must review the AvB program quarterly to determine the program's effectiveness. If Stan becomes an engineer in the Air Force, hed probably have to attend some sort of training right after graduating from college. Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Stans family has still moved several timesboth as an engineer and as a pilot. There are more than enough fully qualified CAREER ENLISTED personnel from the 5 services, waiting in the wings, so to speak, to apply for the WOFT program. It's a great time to apply to become a pilot, and [Soldiers] can get in with a high school degree. With survey data in hand, the Army will likely find that it needs to continue to invest in its aircraft fleet to ensure pilots receive adequate flight hours to remain proficient. I will still try to join but maybe that's because I'm retarded, Guess my packet will go back on the share drive. I want to do it for as long as I can. It is extremely frustrating to see some officers and senior NCOS make such short sighted decisions to solve complex issues without finding the cause, and not conducting any type of research. Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. The service should find a better way of addressing its shortage of pilots. That is completely and totally gone. Change flight school where primary flight training is done by civilian contractors via fixed wing. You are likely going to be on Active Duty Status for about 7 years once you finish command as most officers command a company around their 6th year of service. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Lets assume though that Stan can get hired by a unit, and is scheduled to start UPT as soon as his regular ADSC is up. It is the cheapest method for increasing retention rates, delivers a long-term investment in human capital, and provides a more predictable model for pilot production requirements. If you want to fly the U-2, you must start on Active Duty. As long as hes getting a lot of flight time, Stan should have enough hours for a, When discussing any big-picture career options, I always make sure to follow Simon Sineks advice and, For anyone facing a 10-year military pilot ADSC/O, this means asking yourself: What is it about, For most, Top Gun played at least a little bit of a role. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Posted in these groups: Pilot Officers Warrant Officers I would also say if the Army wants to recruit more street to seat, I would require those people to attend Basic Training at FT Benning and intensify the military training for non-prior service WOCs. After AFIT, Stan would owe a payback for school and might have to serve longer than his 5-year non-pilot ADSC. My formation barely ever conducts social events. Heres some humor about the topic too https://thefrontlines.com/comics/army-pilots-beware/. When I got selected it was a 60/40 split between street to seat and prior. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to. Before Army Secretary Ryan D. McCarthy signed a memorandum for the change in June, the Army had bumped up its incentive pay for aviators in January. More career Enlisted apply than street to seat on a yearly basis. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can receive the Graduate School Option. So now the prior Enlisted must do at least 11.5 years and advance to the grade of W3. One of the reasons for the increased ADSO was related to demand from the private sector for pilots. They run concurrently, butthe latter takes precedence, so your 6 (or 10) year ADSO begins the date you graduate Flight School. Guess what? It only increases your overall training costs because typically you have less time available to retain these people. With 21 years as a Soldier and 10 years reviewing cost estimates for all equipment tests, Mr. Ysa Garza said everyone always has to be safety conscience in his role as an additional duty safety . If he didnt go to AFIT, hed have to move for a second assignment anyway. And yet, theres a certain logic to questioning that 10-year commitment. This means that a BCT that goes to a CTC once a year always demands CAB support. With a 10 year ADSO and an 8 year max time in service requirementit significantly reduces the in house pool as well. I wonder how this will effect street to seat recruitment for WOFT. Why not allowing retired personnel to do what they always wanted? ADSO is completed. The program offers an incentive to remain on active duty in aviation service for either 3 or 5 years, beginning at ADSO expiry or contract approval date, whichever is later. However, many of my buddies werent sure yet if they were willing to commit to a decade of service in exchange for a pilot slot. Apache course end? This 10 year commitment will definitely dissuade him from the Army. These could range from 6 months to two years, depending on the type of aircraft hes flying. Because honestly put the lifestyle sucks nowadays. It also left plenty of time to have a normal life and spend time with one's family. A Leaders Guide to Conducting Research Staff Rides, Report to Congressional Armed Services Committees on Initiatives for Mitigating Military Pilot Shortfalls, Government Accountability Office reported, Creating a Sea Change: TF 76/3, Adaptation, Experimentation, and the Joint Force, Podcast: The Spear The Strategic Lieutenant, Book Talk: Urban Warfare in the Twenty-First Century, Frank Sobchak Joins MWI as Chair of Irregular Warfare Studies, Announcing the Modern War Institutes 202223 Senior and Research Fellows, Call for Submissions: Civil-Military Relations and Modern War, Call for Applications: MWIs 202223 Fellows Program. 4 years closer to RTAG if they're hiring. I have done more CTC rotations and in general "useless bs" since being aviation than I ever did infantry. Welcome back, fellow aviators! What a joke. , I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. Hed probably get 2-3 years at that assignment, but if he did a good job the Air Force would offer him the chance to get a Masters Degree through the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT) at Wright Patterson AFB. The ARMY should allow ATP for all prior service men willing and fit to fly. My ORB says a date 6 years from my AD start date, which Im pretty sure is wrong. But then again, it's 4 more years of employment or should I say deployments. Think about approving some ETPs. (Read. Currently in common core here and we still don't know if it applies or not. One year dedicated to reset, one to training, one to deployment. Therefore, this option is virtually free for Aviation officers. pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the Can you hear the roar of approval erupting from Army doctors across the globe serving out their decade plus commitments? You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. That will solve our retention problem!" A large number of aviation personnel have a lot of passion and dedication to the mission, but that can only last so long when your life consists ONLY of the mission. Although its less common to get more than 6-12 months of your ADSC forgiven under this program, that still gets you off Active Duty sooner than expected. If you, the seasoned army aviator, were still a senior in college and told that to become an aviator you had to sign for a 10-year + flight school ADSO, would you do it? Paste as plain text instead, Is it only for new guys coming in? Gen. McCurry also said, People still want to fly. The Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is to get hired directly by a Guard or Reserve unit and let them send you to UPT. This doesnt exactly seem legally right. The institution of the new ADSO stands in testimony to a DOD organization entrenched in process and procedure at the expense of adjustment to any current reality. Yes, life there is fantastic, and its important to get there as quickly as you can because Seniority is Everything. Press J to jump to the feed. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. Although 10 years of Active Duty feels like a long time, its not that much longer than the alternatives. The increase in the ADSO will have profound affect on USMA/ROTC cadets. Were you planning on doing it for less than 10 years?, His answer was, Of course not. , you must start on Active Duty. The answer is clear. These figures do not include initial trainingthey solely account for the time and cost associated with the platform-specific training. What is the real answer? The change comes as the cost and requirements for aircraft have increased across the board, Kearns said. People have no time to actually live their lives. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. The Armys blind spot with retention data is further highlighted by comments made by Brig. Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. I see three and four star Generals with less, HOW?! Our young NCOs want to become warrant officers and get out and fly. On the reset year, units focused on team building, socializing, individual skills, and professional development. The AvB is essential to retain Officers with an Army aeronautical rating, who are critical to the overall success of the Army's mission. There are some other prerequisites they have to meet. review for a restaurant or somethingonly those who either #LOVEDIT or #hatedit:( ever write reviews, so it's hard to know what the experience is like for the average man. The. arent bad, and patriotism also factors in for most of us. I got out because I wanted to fly, but kept getting stuck in staff positions where I either couldn't fly, or had limited opportunities to fly. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation, from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. In congressional testimony it was stated that at that time (2019) around 40% of the pilot population was within 3 years of being retirement eligible. There are many complexities in these advanced helicopters, which translates to increased costs in flight hours, maintenance, and training requirements, Kearns said. Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. I think it would be a great idea to leverage senior NCOs to enter pilot training with a waiver. The earlier you can Palace Chase, the less difference there is between a regular Active Duty pilot and someone following Stans plan. Your email address will not be published. Weve seen, If youre headed to pilot training, you absolutely must read our 3-part series on Winning UPT. I dont think I wouldve taken the 10 Year ADSO, considering that Id just now be ALMOST complete with 10 yrs aviation service. If you quit during flight school you are still obligated to fulfill the ADSO and reassigned to the needs of the Army. After working several years in the corporate sector in various strategic positions, I recently came back on active duty due to the strong desire to serve. , this is far from guaranteed. There's definitely a balance issue, and I suppose the grass is always greener on the other side. Expect to get yelled at for shit you have no control over. Well, when you have a system that initially punishes critical thinking, then requires it later on down the line, you're creating your own problem that ends up causing its own problems. It was not a wild decision to take a small hit to accession to make sure you have mid careerists. At least 70% are not degree holders and they come from all 5 branches of the military. Wonder if you can get out early if NOT making CW3 or must you hang around. There's an easy answer to this the oblivious, tone-deaf culture of "readiness" that GEN Milley fostered while serving as the CSA. We need better leadership courses that foster problem solving, the importance of critical thinking, and using surrounding talent to identify the cause of issues/solutions. I'm retiring in two years and it's not even to go to the airlines! They used their experience to mentor and groom all the other warrants around them including myself. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Army's initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. Of the two, retention is the variable that should be targeted. Anyway, I just clocked 20 years, 5 1/2 years of that has been spent in the Middle East and for what? Cadets, who have not experienced the Army for even one day as an officer, are now asked to commit up to eleven years for the opportunity to fly for six yearsif they are luckywhile spending the rest of that time on staff, in professional military education, or in broadening assignments. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. Meanwhile students don't do touchdown autorotations and other traditional flight maneuvers. Army and Air Force use this pay. Vertical Reference New ADSO order goes into effect 03JUN saying: "Hey, buddy, you wanna fly? I am planning on staying in anyway but that 10 year also looms big if everything sucks and you hate it. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. COVID has taken care of the airline hiring problem for the next three to five years, making the issueance of an increased ADSO redundant. Reading this in Jan 21, after 10 months of pandemic lockdown. All in all, this track has the potential for less family stability than his Active Duty pilot counterparts. Reading your first paragraph and skimming the rest I couldn't agree more. Hed still have to go through steps 2-5 from the Active Duty pilot career path above! That evens the odds even more. If retention suffers too much, the Army will face a pilot production shortfall that will add to the existing shortage. The Department of Defense released a report in July 2019 that laid out the challenges the military faces with pilot retention and included plans of action from each branch. In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. For more information, please see our Also if you have any time in the army at all, youll probably stay until 20 at that point. Aviation: dude it's a 10 year ADSO, so I hope you like aviation, cuz you ain't going anywhere else. Do that and fix quality of life issues. Pasted as rich text. We want as many applications as we can, so if anybody has any questions, be sure to contact that warrant officer recruiting team, Kearns said. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to earn a 20-year military retirement.. There are a lot more BCTs, SF groups, SFABs and NG/USAR units than there are CABs. The severity of the decline in recruiting will be unknown until the recruiting data comes in from the first affected class of cadets and warrant officer candidates. Some of the impacts may have directly affected [Soldiers] ability to pursue [their] goals of working for the commercial sector, especially the airlines.. The DoD report to Congress included a description of Air Force efforts to assess the problem: The Air Force gathered data on what drives separations from an October 2015 Fighter Pilot Retention Air Force Smart Operations for the 21st century event, the 2015 Air Force Exit and Retention surveys, the August 2017 Dedicated Aircrew Retention Teaming Summit, and a series of three aircrew retention crowdsourcing surveys sent to 9,000 aircrew members that culminated in March 2018. U.S. Army UH-60L Black Hawk helicopters from the New Jersey National Guards 1-150th Assault Helicopter Battalion sit on the flight line during sunset at the Army Aviation Support Facility, Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst, N.J., Nov. 8, 2018. By The big gotcha of the Active Duty pilot career path is that on the day you earn your wings, you also get hit with a 10-year Active Duty Service Commitment (ADSC). I'd love to see credit for the photo. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. Im not young, but Ive aged well and am not ready to resign myself to a desk. The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. Once he identified some units in which hes interested in, hed need to start. Im in shape, arguably intelligent, and have at least ten good years of service left in me yet an age waiver will not be considered for aviation for either OCS or WOCS. Such changes may affect my status, Furthermore, for cadets who may want to pursue a civilian career after a stint in the Army, the opportunity costs are higher the longer they stay. At the same time it could drive a shortage of Aviation Officers, but if they're going to leave the Army anyway. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the USAF Academy, ROTC, or OTS, I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. An ADSO twice as long as other branches (for academy grads) or 6+ years longer than ROTC counterparts is only going to deter quality officers that view an additional obligation as a loss of opportunity for careers beyond the service. So Army. However, after spending a few more minutes thinking about how these career paths might compare, I decided Stans idea might not be as advantageous after all. WASHINGTON -- Starting in October, commissioned and warrant officers selected for initial entry flight training will be required to serve at least a decade once they become an Army aviator,. 10 year ADSO started FY21. It just seems like a bait and switch to have me sign a conditional release and paperwork that says 6 years and then say, oh by the way we meant 10. Signal: The IT department of the Army. In the same discussion about retention data, Brig. I don't know if there are enough Officers getting out that would be willing to revert to WO to solve the pilot shortage, but maybe it would help. Having been out of college for at least 5 years at the start of UPT, its more likely that Stan will have a spouse and kidsmaking the very busy year at UPT even more challenging. Raising the service commitment ignores the actual root causes. And yet, theres a certain logic to questioning that 10-year commitment. Although there's a max of 8 years TIS that can be changed in a New York minute. 10 is nuts. At first, his idea sounded reasonable to me. Sounds great! But, we want as many people as we can get to apply. Also get's a TS which is money, but dealing with army IT infrastructure is frustrating. is working as an Admission Liaison Officer for the USAF Academy. Ideally, you should enlist with one of those units as soon as youre old enough and serve part-time while you complete college. West Point graduates have a 5 year commissioning ADSO. Thank you for your time and have a great rest of your day! Warrant Officer Candidate School is a five-week program. A regular Active Duty pilot career path. For the Army, the costs are much cheaper. Your link has been automatically embedded. reenlistment document. Many aviators got tripped up by it in the last few years in the push to get to the airlines. Yes, the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is the best it gets you to all of your goals the fastest. If you, the seasoned army aviator, were still a senior in college and told that to become an aviator you had to sign for a 10-year + flight school ADSO, would you do it?