Id just like to ask folks to think about If prior experience of fires in the region may have betrayed fire managers this time. All without the but why reflection, cause and effect analysis, drill down technique and the inter-relationship effect. Then, a few days later they had the full timeline article and info about the NPS not following its own protocols. Will it change what has happened? When I built a home here just a few years ago and wanted to have a sprinkler system installed, I was told we dont have big wildfires here. Chief Kurtz was right on target to compare South Canyon, Yarnell, and now Chimney Top 2. I think this is more often than not the case. Behind the Chimneys is Sugarland Mountain. But when it's close to home, the sadness and concern of those affected is ten-fold in the worry department. January 4, 2017 at 5:26 pm The Gatlinburg fire chief put out a notice for additional help to come to Gatlinburg around 11:52 pm. James, thank you for that compliment! Nonetheless, your observations on the 21st indicate that no signs of the 14th fire were present; and if the NPS did fully suppress the first fire, their timeline was undoubtedly non-aggressive to do so. All rights reserved. Standing dead hemlock burned up their trunks, to as high as 50 feet on one specimen I saw. They couldnt get out a cell mssg. Most of those resources were involved in those ongoing fires and unavailable for immediate response to a small fire, when it was still small. All together this was the absolute worse place to have a fire at almost the worst time, save it was lucky to not have been a few weeks earlier. Undoubtedly, the current management of our natural resources will come before the Judgments of the Almighty; for human lives were lost in this fire. It is not just officials who have not caught up with the new climate reality, it is the general public and those in the path of fire. The fire, which was reported at 6:39 a.m. Sunday in the 700 block of Parkway, caused extensive damage to a block of businesses, the city's spokesperson said. Fire those managers! Where the fire burned the valley floor, the desiccated hemlock burned freely and fully. I picked them up and came back home with plans of bringing truck back over mountain and filling it up because it was near empty. When one seriously examines the events, these lives could have been spared despite the power of fire and wind. We had a contractor there working on improvements to our house. Not sure why it matters, but you offered such a specific time, thought I would offer info to possibly make it more accurate. I dont have the statistics to prove what you wrote is incorrect, but I am convinced that it is not a fact to say most of the fires that are monitored (as opposed to fully suppressed) escape outside the agencys borders. Why? because poor, inadequate human decision making allowing basic fire physics, fire chemistry and TIME to align resulting in avoidable death and destruction! The park should have been begging for help and putting out warnings all week end!!! Im not saying GRSM made the right or wrong decision, there is just a lot more involved then saying they didnt suppress it promptly. Parkway in downtown Gatlinburg from the intersection at Traffic Light No. There are many many folks who even if cell service were functional could not afford it. Someone must have started the fire. If you search around, you can find a recorded radio transmission by TN Forestry personnel from that fateful morning (my old brain doesnt remember where it was posted and I didnt bookmark it, but some other WFT readers may know). I knew him when he was at Indiana Dunes National Lake Shore. On-the-ground fire suppression activity took place Monday when firefighters took defensive action to protect structures at a nearby GRSM picnic area. Many structures were lost- thankfully no lives. Whomever is in charge locally for the NPS should also be summarily fired. GATLINBURG, Tennessee -- The charges have been dropped against two teens who were accused of starting the wildfires in Gatlinburg last fall. No pre-evacuation notice was sent so citizens could be ready to depart. I was on the Party Rock fire in NC and our IMET was predicting that storm event 3-4 days before it happened. The NPS investigation team has all this information and everything posted on Wildfire Today and a lot of info that was never made public. As one who has had experience and ready mix, concrete block, pavers, and pre-cast, one would be a fool to rebuild on ANY existing foundation that came in contact with temperatures approaching 3,000F. Now I can only imagine what children or adults with issues might have gleaned from this message being broadcast. There isn't one specific cause behind the fires, Boyd said. It would make suppression efforts difficult, but a fire break could have been constructed around the original slow-moving fire in the early days. He replied to me on Christmas Eve no less, that they were double checking all the facts to make sure all of their information was as accurate as possible and would keep digging. Just a quick comment per above posts. This was part of our retirement plan and now all we have left is a lot, we lost a lot of money that we will never be able to recuperate. I was in my cabin the night of the fire and if I had spotted it a minute or so after I did I would not be alive to type this right now. That didnt happen here. The big, dead hemlocks are light grey with a circular limb pattern as viewed from the air. Fortunately, Wildfire Today and Knox News had both published detailed timelines about what happened and when, before the Sevier County DA cut off the info flow. It would be interesting to understanding the impact of excessive fuel from dead hemlocks, killed by hemlock wooly adelgid (together with the lack of moisture typically found under a mature, live, shady hemlock canopy, even with the extreme drought conditions) had on this fire. The Incident Management Teams fighting fires in GA and NC gave pre-evac notices for people within 10 miles of the fire line each time a cold front with high winds approached. Forecasts were issued each day from November 24 through 27; we could not find one for November 28 the day the fire burned into Gatlinburg. That factor is the density of residential development, layout of roads, and approved building materials present in that area. After the fact they called in helicopters to dump water on the fire which is what they should have done in the first place and didnt, WHY NOT? Sunset that day was at 5:21 p.m. which would have allowed them to drop on the fire until 5:51 p.m., 30 minutes after sunset. I have a photo I took from the Walmart parking lot looking south that shows how smoky it was in Pigeon Forge. First of all I was very concerned when the wildfires started over in North Carolina, in some of the National Forest that border Great Smoky Mountain National Park. Many times, as has been thoroughly vetted during the analysis the Chimney Top 2 wildfire the ONLY option is an all out aggressive, throw the world at it initial attack from air, ground and sea. As a citizen with a firefighting background, I knew days ahead of time that high mountain winds were expected in the Eastern TN/NC Mountains, coupling that with the extreme drought conditions and the knowledge of the massive amount of ground fuel available in the forest based on being in the forest regularly even just days prior, outside observing the conditions and the terrain. Flies north of fire (s) in TN. The Spur or US 441 runs between Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg in the Smokies. ATF, other agencies search for cause of blaze that claimed life of Buffalo firefighter. Who caused the fire in Gatlinburg? One person was found dead Sunday. As a mountain boy who loves the harshest terrain even I couldnt imagine trying to run a fire line in this area. Tough questions like, Why did it take so long for community leaders to activate burn bans in spite of the extreme drought conditions, fuel loads, number of arson fires and the regional outbreak of fires, the social nature of this crime, and other related events. Classic Swiss Cheese risk management fire management failurehave we as a profession learned anything since South Canyon, Yarnell and now Chimney Top 2? Yes a lot is somewhat predictable, just as this fire, but not every aspect is, there are too many variables in the real world. I can only say that I had no peace at all whatsoever after the first word I heard of the terrible fire there .. This lack of serious response is all too obvious. Not everything that happened with the fires had a dotted line to those two teens. Before we got in the car, we each took photos of the approaching fire with our cell phones. But very little if any fire suppression activity occurred until Monday, November 28. I know as I have been there many times due to security interests. Everyone should also know that this area is characterized by mountain laurel, in some areas nearby its so thick the only way through is on top it or if your lucky under on your belly. I am glad so many are taking a look at this situation, and hopefully never loosing sight of the intention to improvement and a better way. Also, for the last several decades, NPS policies have allowed these excessive fuels to build. From just across the Smokies in Bryson City, N.C./Swain county. Not every fire manager gets the benefit of a meteorologist in your hip pocket, but there are many good weather websites available. Im hoping at this point, its going to be pretty quick. NPS manager Cassius Cash said the NPS didnt have the authority to order an evacuation (how about recommending a pre-evacuation status so the public was ready to evacuate if needed?). Shame on you. There are a lot of excellent experienced fire management staff working for the Park Service. They didnt and now its the property owners problem, they havent offered any clean up assistance, free dumping fees, no permit cost to rebuild, and certainly no financial help. GATLINBURG, Tenn. (AP) Firefighters have found a body in the remains of a building that burned in . Bob called. Excellent points, Jody. Ash move in quickly after a fire, and through the yearly process of shedding their leaves, make it difficult for seeds from the Red Spruce/Fraser Fir/Hemlocks to make an effective seed-soil contact, thus when we lose one of these magnificent evergreen forests, it truly is a tragedy in more ways than one. I am trying to learn everything I can and hope to find an avenue to serve in this cause in some small way as most of you have and are serving in major, ways, risking your lives. Until theyre able to return, Neddo hates to see the Gatlinburg Parkway location gone, but he hopes the next place will be even better. On November 23 when the fire was discovered the KBDI was 599, Molly Schroer, a spokesperson for the IMT told us. For the region, I hope fire officials do realize that regional history makes little difference if the right combination of factors exists for rapid and extreme fire growth. Numerous photos show a dramatic increase in smoke in the downtown area between 5 and 5:30 pm. perish, but for the 14 who did, To access this area, it is important to follow check point protocols. I was in my cabin on 28 November and barely made it out alive. The Gatlinburg Space Needle fire (July 1992) In 1992, a fire destroyed Ripley's Gatlinburg Museum which was, at the time, located at the base of the needle. Corker and Alexander know what would happen if they tried to interfere with a Federal prosecution! With the wildfires scattered across western N.C., we are lucky that, given parallel conditions of the wildfires that swept down the Chimney Tops into Gatlinburg ..i.e. I was on the phone w them that Mon. There were cliffs in the area but firefighting Hotshot Crews can figure out how to work on steep slopes, sometimes backing off a bit, constructing a fire line and intentionally burning the fuel in between, preventing further expansion of the fire. Fire-wanted or unwanted- is not a warm and fuzzy abstract thing it is often portrayed in todays media and society to play around with. I can only hope that the actions are being undertaken somewhere and by the decision-makers and leaders to think and act differently. This country was founded on open respectful discussion, such as this which has occurred in this article commentary and blog comments. When the fire started on Chimney Tops I thought surely the National Park Service would take necessary steps to put it out quickly because of the sure danger of it spreading. Deputy Park Superintendent Jordan Clayton said the initial fire on an area called Chimney Tops, a double peaked ridge line about 4 miles away from Gatlinburg, was caused by a person or. I am a management specialist and I understand how to plan, and implement risk-protection and safety in many kinds of settings, to address various threats to people. For folks afflicted by this tragedy, emotions running high should be expected; and it is understandable for Kelly Morgan to be upset. The report stated the roof started to collapse, and the building was deemed too unsafe to work inside. It took the governor to get the lack of evac into the open, as local gov was trying to keep it out of the press. (PETER PARKS/AFP via Getty Images) Chan estimated the insurance claim could . But the NPS didnt even follow their own rules in this case. I am rebuilding the home that was burned to the ground possibly due to negligence by local fire officials like many of Lincolns Union generals, did not have the will to fight . Other than the way the police were able to evacuate 4,000 people from Gatlinburg with little notice on Monday evening, everyone else involved did a very poor job. Good incident managers welcome open discussion and critique to learn and improve for future incidents. This is how we all get better at what we do and are. My husband told me our children would not be happy with us if we did that, so we decided to leave without returning to the house. NO managing wildfire is much more complex, especially in a multiple fire drought driven incident like managers were dealing with on this incident. Unfortunately human lives were lost and hundreds of folks have been displaced. Kind of like closing the barn door after the cow gets out, dont you think? At that time their were no burn permits or building permit requirements either. Anyone who has toured the hillsides where most of the homes that were destroyed would know immediately how difficult evacuations would be. It is the duty of the people and Congress to maintain and voice our concerns and opinions to where check and balances work. But all sitting back and doing nothing to help. I know that because of my experience, my training, my ongoing learning and situational awareness of a host of related and seemingly unrelated knowledge. In total GFD crews, in addition to, Pigeon Forge Fire Department, Sevierville Fire Department, Sevier County Ambulance Service and Pittman Center Fire Department assisted in extinguishing the blaze. We could see the smoke. I agree with you Bill that it isnt Most but whether it is a few or many isnt the point for me. There were emergency vehicles blocking Motor Nature Trail. The news person is very frustrated as she nor their rival Channel 8 can do no interviews due to the gag order. Officials said three people. GATLINBURG, Tenn. (WVLT) - On Friday, Gatlinburg city officials released a report detailing the downtown fire on Oct. 9 that killed one person and injured another.. Above: The Drought Monitor issued November 29 showed Exceptional Drought, the highest category, for the Gatlinburg area and large sections of Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, North Carolina, and South Carolina. Regardless, the appropriate aerial assault should continue. The cleaner told officials he found Bates in the room where the fire started and had what appeared to be a warming fire going. Those are low numbers for the southeastern United States. It appears that only TEMA has the authority to give a notice over multiple counties, but they didnt take the lead until Monday night, after the fact. Updated: Dec. 25, 2022 at 6:15 PM PST. There was a yellow glow in the skies which has always been indicative of severe weather where we came from. Not just putting out the fires, but restoring the forest and trails afterward. Sandra, I agree. Experience must be coupled with training and planning based on forecasted possibilities and even un-forecasted what ifs. It is no wonder that the people do not trust Government. I have an Gatlinburg address but the county services my street. By the way, the drainage to the northwest, where NPS had placed their line, is .2 mile and ~1,000 feet vertical (77% grade) of mostly weathered rock. Intense, deep burning fires with significant downwind spotting should be expected. 2 min read. I parked truck right beside a big mound of rip rap that Bob had dumped for lining the ditches on sides of our neighborhood roads, which arent through roads. But from what I have read the failure in this situation was in following procedure, so what can be added to have averted this fire and its terrible deadly consequences? From 7 p.m. until midnight sustained winds were at 13 to 17 mph with gusts from 34 to 49. How Gatlinburg attempted to notify its residents to evacuate as the fire burned into the city, http://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/tennessee/2016/12/13/timeline-gatlinburg-wildfires/95138656/, http://www.southernfireexchange.org/etc/ITPFISE.pdf, Long bushfire season wears down firefighters in Queensland and Western Australia, Community near Heppner, Oregon first in Morrow County to earn Firewise designation, County Cork fire brigades work through the night on gorse fires, Renewed call for the Holy Grail of firefighter tracking, Hiker owes $300,000 for Arizona wildfire he started. Lets see what reviews done by people with expertise in wildland fire management come up with. He should loose his job and be prosecuted for this mess he created. There seems to be many people who just dont get that their are many areas in these mountains and in rural America that are no tech zones. As I learned in the first 12 hours what took place there, I realized that there was almost no preparation for the risk of a fire, on any I think were all just going to come back and rebuild stronger than ever, he said. If this is the same Bob Stanton commenting here, then the bias is way too obvious. The DA in Sevier County has put a gag rule in effect since the get go to protect the teeneagers involved. The use of smokejumpers could be part of the plan. I have a close friend on IMT in southern CO so have some familiarity with the process. In response to Jeanne in regard to Kelly Morgans comments: It is the duty of the American people to honor and respect and obey the Laws of the Land unless government becomes a dictatorship to basic rights and freedoms. We were still asleep when it happened. Thats perfect Johnny. This is what happened with a handful of officials/personnel regarding the fatal 2000 black bear mauling of a woman hiker in Elkmont. . The appearance of dead hemlock progression is astounding. This goes all the way to our Congress and irresponsible, blind, budget cutting exercises. But outright blame? I look forward to seeing the report when it comes out. You certainly got it right when you said that sometimes government does not listen and it takes a loud voice. Enter your email address to subscribe and receive notifications of new articles by email. So they were more concerned about NPS structures than our homes and lives? I told him there wasnt when I got there at 5 oclock but I could not even see driveways on the way up. Talk about finger pointing! It was extremely dark and small branches and twigs were pelting our car. Within a few days or week prior to this deadly fire I heard a local major Knoxville radio station broadcasting a satire bashing HRC, Obama, the Federal Government among a few other controversial things, and how the revolution has begun including the incitement of burning down the place, this Knoxville radio station followed this rant with songs whose lyrics tough-ted and instructed the starting of fires. Limbs began to fall. People that I know said that not implementing fire suppression is exactly what they should have done, so we can agree to disagree. Yet today June 5th, Sevier County still has their infamous gag order in effect more than 6 months later in the interests of prosecuting the trial of the murdurous kids. We have turned in a claim but still no word on a settlement. Who will accuse and then fire then? My prayers are with all of you. Tommy Kirkland says: He yelled at Bates to get out, and Bates did leave before coming back without the worker knowing. The winds were getting stronger. I can tell you that within the week prior to this fire in the Greenbriar section of the GSMNP, I hiked on trails rustling through leaf litter that came up to my mid shins. We watched the news the rest of evening. People need their jobs, and we all act based on the limited information, training and experience that we have and hopefully rely on others who have diverse backgrounds to supplement where we may lack. On the night before I left for Branson, I had terrible nightmares of being caught in a forest fire in Branson. Who ever was in charge should loose their job!!! I told him my home was on fire and he said they were evacuating everyone,then. I would also hope that we would figure out that such major climate disruptions as the recent drought in the Southeast are getting more common and that human action has helped cause, and can help cure, such disruptions. Many are willing to allow the absolute open permission to some to behave as they will without question, but are unwilling to allow others the same room to learn and grow. Yes, good points Jody. We have also come upon many campfires that tent campers and others thought or extinguished but were back to a full burn with not adequate fire breaking around it. Location field must contain 'city, state' or a zip code to perform a radius search (e.g., Denver, CO or 46122).City and state must be separated by a comma followed by a space (e.g., Houston, TX) This data from Indian Grave was not too far offthe forecast issued the day before. They had identifiedon a map a 410-acre fire management area which, depending on weather conditions, may allow for further fire growth. It is to be considered, but verified by other means. Your reply well done! We are still dealing but two of us or degree, the emotional loss of losing our beloved cabin but now we are in the rebuild mode. This would explain why they are all covering for each other. At 3:00PM I convinced my husband to call the Gatlinburg Fire Dept. My questions are: what were the wind speeds when NPS crews ignited these backfires to protect NPS structures; and if they ignited fire on the 28th when the winds were getting stronger and stronger, would the potential exist for backfire embers to get out of control? I turned on tv to see if there were warnings of any sort. Basically telling the press, the public and the injured families to go to hell. Instead simply took pictures on their phone, 3. It is a primary source and illuminates some of the discussion topics that have been on Wildfire Today. Granted these fires werent inside Gatlinburg, but the fire chief knew full well the potential for catastrophic wildfires in these mountains. But the condition of the fuel was also important since it happenedduring what the National Weather Service (NWS) calls exceptional drought conditions. Brought mine in from Texas. The earlier fire on the hill was named Chimney Tops hence the name Chimney Tops 2 for the new blaze. This should be placed firmly on the shoulders of the Park Service, Cassius Cash, Superintendent and the City and County. Sorry to hear that you lost your house, but you followed your wits which kept you from getting stuck there by downed trees over the road. All weekend, my husband and daughter followed the fire on the Chimney Tops 2 facebook page NPS had established. The 2016 Gatlinburg wildfire was deadliest in the eastern half of the U.S. since the Great Fires of 1947 in Maine and the worst in the history of Great . Due to the damage this fire has caused Im sure there will be follow-up effects (and recriminations) for years. I could not figure how to put pictures on Wildfire Today, so here are links to let you see whats happened in the Park. For example politicians far away from the event make decisions regarding funding, resources and operations. I have wanted to learn because I dont know enough to say much, but when I read your two posts about the loss of your cabin, and your escape, I felt I had to say, Im so sorry, to you, and probably speak for many many others who did not find this blog and find an avenue to learn, listen and to speak. Firefighters from Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge responded. Thank you, Bill. Google and Bing maps give a pretty good idea of the expanse of dead hemlocks. teams had Lake Lure and Tate City evacuate when high winds were forecast. We went to West TN for Thanksgiving Holidays and came back home to Gatlinburg on Sunday. Those with information are urged to contact the Tennessee Arson Hotline at 1-800-762-3017 or the GFD at 865-436-5112. The excellent Park folks seemed to just monitor it, and it resolved itself. level, in advance of this disaster had occured. Jeannine, what an awesome, in-depth and thoughtful response. This fire burned for almost a week, before it exploded into Gatlinburg. The winds were blowing from the Chimneys more down the mountain than up toward LeConte. And the list goes on. Some of the towns most impacted were Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg, both near Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Im sure there will be lots of finger pointing, name calling pushing for blame and then legal actions. Most of the people that own property down there like me live elsewhere in the real world were things cannot be as easily shoved under the rug like they are down there. Fire crews were dispatched to a structure fire around 6:30. How many resources were on how many fires at that time in this region and in others? I got out of the car and walked up to the side of the pickup truck. May God look out for all of you in your time of loss. One week before the fire, a backcountry ranger confronted people that had built a fire at Alum Cave Bluffs. Honor. Our responses to this fire event have included comments with blame and fault-finding as well as a suggestion that we investigate in order to learn for future decision-making. Cleanup continued Tuesday, with crews piling up rubble near Traffic Light 6 on the Gatlinburg Pkwy. Why is forestry both national and state not working more collaboratively with citizens and local fire departments to improve awareness and preparation? In a time in which the NPS and all other government agencies are under attack and certain factions are seeking to replace all our government agencies with private for profit industry I would not ignore the possibility of anything. I guess they must think when you have to go up there to handle this mess they caused that you dont need lodging, food or gas to get there. SOURCE Like this: Loading. The Gatlinburg fire that killed 14 people was started by two teenagers dropping lit matches onto the ground along Chimney Tops Trail in Great Smoky Mountain National Park, sources close to the investigation told the Knoxville News Sentinel. Situational awareness to current and predicted variables, as well as the potential of possibility is key. If they had taken action the day it started instead of now using the excuse of the rough terrain, yeah it is but so is most mountain areas. One of the owners of the impacted businesses called a contractor to demolish a damaged portion of the building. A lot of personnel put forth heroic efforts to save lives and we should all be grateful for that. Yes, some the ridges connecting to chimney-tops had dead hemlock stands. I heard a comment that people have the use common sense. For the most current information about the Chimney Tops 2 Fire at Gatlinburg, see our articles tagged Chimney 2 Fire. So because of his and other incompetence property owners are paying the price. Personally, I have already started reconstruction on my cabin but the consensus on Chalet Village north which was 540 cabins and now stands only at 20 remaining Is that about 70% are not rebuilding for a variety of reasons . Copyright 2022 WVLT. What is these adults had taken immediate action to correct and intervene in this unsafe behavior by children. Intention is important, even in a court of law, intention ways heavily on the sentencing. Yes my house burnt along with 520 others in North Chalet Village, village no longer but all foundations. I certainly agree there are definitely consequences for our actions, for some more than others. First rule of any structure fire or wildfire. And each structure became much more of a threat than the spreading ground fire ever was. Kelly you are right, NO Help from City or County in the clean up..SOS home owners responsible for all.. We strive to use real facts, not alternative facts, on Wildfire Today. Travelers are urged to avoid the area at this time. FF get lulled into thinking they know by instinct but that era ininct will get people killed and thatas what happened. LeConte. That and your wish to pay 50% income tax and there will never be a fire again! This was done to simply to avoid tort liability claims even though a claim was filed; and to avoid accountability. Two Hawaii police departments are making moves to beef up incentives as recruiting efforts grow more competitive. I fully understand the financial difficulties of the NPS and with firefighters abroad. It was Congress that adjourned for the holidays without passing a bill to fund forest fire fighting efforts. I had concerns about traffic once we got down there.